Mars Hill Conference: Isn't She Beautiful Part 2

So the second day kicked of with a morning talk by Rob on the following topic:
A few thoughts on God, Jesus, salvation, judgment, heaven, hell, who's in, who's out, and the end of the world as we know it.

We started off by exploring this basic idea: If someone asked you what salvation was and how you received it, and the only thing you had to provide the answer was the Bible, what would that answer look like.

See, the big issue with topics like this is that we often don't just rely on the bible. We utilize denominational (or non-denominational) doctrine and theology that has it's roots in Professor So-and-so, and Doctor Mumble-Jumble. Even when we say "we just teach the bible," what we typically do is teach our slant on the bible.

This is a big discussion, and one that I don't want to go into here. But here on some of my thoughts on this talk and the rest of the day.

Going to heaven
When the goal of this life is escaping it to a far off other worldly place, we are not doing the present situation or message and justice. Jesus often spoke about the kingdom being here, now, present, with us.

Is that all we have to offer to people? An escapism? Is that really hope?

Is that the best that God can give us? or is that just the best we give God?

Another thought about "who's in" and "who's out":
What do we do about the person who has "said the prayer" but does not live his life for Jesus? or what about the person who has never said a prayer but lives more Christlike than most Christians?

If a prayer, or a ritual is the point, then do humility, compassion, love, generosity...really matter at all?

Is there more than one Jesus being portrayed to people? My Jesus does not look very much like the same Jesus Fred Phelps sees, or Pat Robertson sees.

Maybe some Jesus' need to be rejected.

Some people might actually be on the road to salvation by rejecting your church and what it teaches.

Have you ever noticed that the people who want to label in vs. out are always in?

How is it that even Christians can't agree on what it takes to be "saved"?

A very rigid fundamentalist becomes a very open universalist when a young family member dies.

Where is grace in all of this?

Grace: it is a free gift, there is nothing you can do to earn it, all you have to do is....


What is salvation?
Is it forgiveness of sins?
Is it relationship with God?
Is it safety from hell? What about the hell on earth?

How do you "get" it?
Is it something you say?
Is it something you have to be?
Is it something you do?
Is it something someone else does?
Is it something something someone says to you?
Is it something that someone else tells you to say/believe/do/trust?

When you examine the bible you find that there are "conversion" moments that have involved each of those examples.

If you were asked how someone gets saved, and you only had the bible to answer, you might find many different answers.

Salvation is holistic in nature. Jesus wants to save us...
from sin
from regret
from anger
from hatred
from selfishness
from bitterness
from poverty
from oppression
from ANYTHING that keeps us from the peace of God (Shalom)


Salvation is where Jesus is. If our hearts are truly being transformed, then we will begin to cane about the things that Jesus cares about.


Sometimes the greatest answer is "I DON'T KNOW."

Matthew, Luke (in Acts) and Paul (in Colossians) make a point to stress that Jesus wants to renew ALL things, restore EVERYTHING, and reconcile ALL things. There is more to the cross than individual, personal salvation. Of course that is a huge part of it, but if salvation is only about individual souls, then we miss the whole Gospel.

Jesus often tells parables that warn us. The people who we assume are "in" may be "out" and the people who are "out", may actually be "in."

Quotation from Richard Rohr: "My simple definition of salvation would be when one begins to live in conscious union with God. This of course grows and develops and Jesus makes it plain that this has to begin in our bodies, in our human lives, in our experiences in this world, now, and for that Jesus is surely necessary for salvation. It is not a formula of a mere affirmation but a change of identity"


When we look at the bible, we MUST remember that the story does not begin with sin. It starts with Shalom. Subsequently it also ends in Shalom.

Most of the Creation story is not even about people. It is about God's Creation.
Our planet is something to be cared for because it is a creation from God.

Caring for the environment is not an option for Christians

It is obvious that God wants to dwell with us.
He resided in the temple.
He became flesh and walked among humanity.
The Church is referred to as Christ's Body.
Revelation - Heaven crashing into earth.

Christian life is not about escaping this world, it is about being where God is.

Well there are my thoughts. This was just the first session of the day. And in typical "postmodern" fashion we didn't really get any answers, but we did get a lot of questions and conversations started. I enjoyed that.

I went to a workshop about leadership roles at Mars Hill as well. I won't go into it, but I was a little disappointed. There were specific topics I hoped they would address but they skirted around them.

The night service was mostly a worship service. The band is really good, and Rob gave a great short lesson on the prayer shawl that Jews wore/wear. It really ties into the woman who is healed by touching Jesus' robe. I won't go into that either. I have to save some of this stuff in case I want to teach on it. Haha.